Check out the Citizen Tulsa Podcast I was on https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/last-building-standing-the-rev-dr-robert-turner/id1396976698?i=1000465243108&fbclid=IwAR1QhAV9RZQsQ9Hc86Vot8lBOe7ScX1UQ7-vyEwX8wzxjlk2NW0oU1qyoKs